tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post114436786314546405..comments2023-09-25T04:24:45.407-05:00Comments on The M Blog: Dialogue with a visiting volunteerJ. Guy Musehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17751691713410311094noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1145028274997051532006-04-14T10:24:00.000-05:002006-04-14T10:24:00.000-05:00Jeff,What you responded to in your own "Should we ...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>What you responded to in your own <A HREF="http://prayerandtheword.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">"Should we be called Pastor?"</A> posting along with the dialogue in the <A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=21063440&postID=114271309458057176" REL="nofollow"> comments</A> very much goes hand-in-hand with my own posting above. Thanks for adding to the dialogue and for your insightful comments!J. Guy Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17751691713410311094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144993582310928592006-04-14T00:46:00.000-05:002006-04-14T00:46:00.000-05:00Dear Brother Guy,I finally got around to commentin...Dear Brother Guy,<BR/><BR/>I finally got around to commenting on that thread about "Should We Be Called Pastor." I'm sorry I took so long getting back to you on that.<BR/><BR/>Love in Christ,<BR/><BR/>JeffJeff Richard Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733241874625816333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144638826080677912006-04-09T22:13:00.000-05:002006-04-09T22:13:00.000-05:00"I still believe though that most S. Baptists woul...<I>"I still believe though that most S. Baptists would be quite comfortable and thrilled being a part of one of the house churches being planted overseas, even though it is not what they are used to back home."</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe most Southern Baptists would be <I>more</I> comfortable and thrilled with one of these house churches, because when you look at our attendance stats it's obvious that they're <B>NOT</B> comfortable in or thrilled with our churches in the USA.Tim Sweatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12207080258485611356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144463996945525212006-04-07T21:39:00.000-05:002006-04-07T21:39:00.000-05:00great post. love your blog title too, sounds like ...great post. love your blog title too, sounds like mine.<BR/>God is good<BR/>jpuJohn Umlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403644529498645914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144421540064387962006-04-07T09:52:00.000-05:002006-04-07T09:52:00.000-05:00Gary,I admit the women issue is a touchy situation...Gary,<BR/><BR/>I admit the women issue is a touchy situation, but do not feel we have stepped beyond NT guidelines in anything we have done to date. I could share some situations that I personally feel uncomfortable with that have arisen over the years, but these are situations beyond our control. If I felt we were doing something contrary to Scripture we would not be doing it. But I have yet to be shown by anybody where we stepped outside of Scriptural boundaries.<BR/><BR/>--------------<BR/><BR/>Tim,<BR/><BR/>Are you a prophet? "...this is going to be the biggest obstacle to international missions in the next few years..." is very much on target. It is already beginning to draw attention. Much of what we live and experience is definitely out of our comfort zone. It has taken years to begin to understand these things. Our paradigms for what a church is and what church should look like have been drastically altered as we have gone back to the NT and carefully tried to understand exactly what Scripture has to say about these matters. No one wishes more than M's that God had given more detailed info about church organization in the NT, but as you say, maybe He knew something we didn't. We have been given the Word, the Spirit, faith, the gospel, and prayer to lead and guide us. Tradition still is very much with us and weighs heavily on much of what we do. I still believe though that most S. Baptists would be quite comfortable and thrilled being a part of one of the house churches being planted overseas, even though it is not what they are used to back home.<BR/><BR/>------------------------<BR/><BR/>Alexander,<BR/><BR/>I love your blog and check it daily for updates! Thanks for the good word. As I say above, we are on a steep learning curve ourselves. Much of what we live is new ground for us as well. Thanks for keeping us in your prayers.<BR/><BR/>-----------------------<BR/><BR/>Mark,<BR/><BR/>I would be most interested in getting hold of your "Eph.4:11-12" paper you are writing. I have heard of the Frost/Hirsch book but have not read it. I too feel the 5-fold ministries are not necessarily present in every house church, but are gifts given to the city-wide church. In a sense this is what I do. I relate to over 100 house churches, not to just one. We have others who are city-wide evangelists, teachers, etc. I will give you a visit at your jesusfamilynetwork.com site!<BR/><BR/>--------------<BR/><BR/>Jeff,<BR/><BR/>It is new to us as well. I don't claim to have all the answers and am certainly open to be corrected where we may be off course. What I share is our experience as the Lord continues to lead. It is often scary, but very exciting to be out on the edge.<BR/><BR/>I posted a second fairly long comment on your own site under the "Pastor" article along these same lines. Would be interested in hearing your response. As far as Titus being sent by Paul to appoint elders--no problem. What we have seen happening is that the church planters that don't actually become the pastor/elder will usually stick around long enough to ensure that adequate leadership is in place before moving on. Wednesday night I met with one such case. Cever had planted a church in one part of the city and left several men in charge (one being a named pastor). He is now planting another church in a different part of town. He will function as the pastor/elder until leadership arises within the new church plant.J. Guy Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17751691713410311094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144414417328360282006-04-07T07:53:00.000-05:002006-04-07T07:53:00.000-05:00Interesting conversation Guy.Right now I'm finding...Interesting conversation Guy.<BR/><BR/>Right now I'm finding myself surrounded by Eph. 4:11,12. I'm writing a paper in one of my graduate classes on the nature and function of the Ephesians church leadership model. I'm learning that the Letter to Ephesians was probably written not JUST to the Ephesian church, but to all churches everywhere. Our best look into the vision of Paul's ideal church. Paul is also talking about the larger, universal church in Ephesians. To read a popular book on the subject, check out "The Shaping of Things To Come" By Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch.<BR/><BR/>As I'm reading more, its becoming clearer that not every house church could have all 5 gifts, but that throughout a city or region, leaders emerge that have the vision to resource the entire network. See (still under construction) www.jesusfamilynetwork.com to get a feel for what this might look like today. Just another expression of myriad methods of leadership in this blossoming church movement. Blessings on your ministry. And blessings on the women who are showing us the way!Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585672129063141712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144393078321751002006-04-07T01:57:00.000-05:002006-04-07T01:57:00.000-05:00Woa! Guy you are so patient and full of grace. It ...Woa! Guy you are so patient and full of grace. It is so powerful hearing you speak about critical issues like this right from the frontline of experience; so helpful for us in the West. Thankyou. I was interested when talking to some of those involved with the CPMs in India, like the Choudhries, their breakthrough came 5 years after they started, one of the keys to that was the releasing of the women to baptise and plant churches.<BR/>Keep going brother you are breaking new ground for all of us.Simple Social Workerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02322720284638233356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144391006726249042006-04-07T01:23:00.000-05:002006-04-07T01:23:00.000-05:00Ah, nothing like the inability to grasp the concep...Ah, nothing like the inability to grasp the concept that the US Southern Baptist model is not the only way for a church to function. I'm beginning to think that this is going to be the biggest obstacle to international missions in the next few years.<BR/><BR/>Like Jeff, I'm wondering about the issue of pastoral leadership. It does seem that the NT pattern was for each church to have elders/pastors. Admittedly, we know very little about how those churches were structured. Maybe the elders/pastors functioned more on a citywide basis exercising a general leadership of the house churches in that city. (Not very baptistic, but it could have happened that way.) In that case, each house church would not necessarily have had its own elder/pastor.<BR/><BR/>It would have been so much easier if God had given us detailed information on church organization in the NT, but maybe He didn't do so because He knew the church would need to be flexible to relate to different cultures.Tim Sweatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12207080258485611356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144385262598831482006-04-06T23:47:00.000-05:002006-04-06T23:47:00.000-05:00Dear Guy,I'm trying to understand, but you're push...Dear Guy,<BR/><BR/>I'm trying to understand, but you're pushing something that is very new to me, so I'm kinda leary.<BR/><BR/>What about how Paul was concerned that Titus go and finish what was left undone and appoint elders in every town?<BR/><BR/>Love in Christ,<BR/><BR/>JeffJeff Richard Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733241874625816333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23191203.post-1144379535886924802006-04-06T22:12:00.000-05:002006-04-06T22:12:00.000-05:00Guy,What an excellent and insightful post! Clearly...Guy,<BR/><BR/>What an excellent and insightful post! Clearly in the NT as you indicated women played a major role in advancing the cause of the kingdom and in church planting. We too witnessed the phenomenon in Argentina that some of our most outstanding leaders in evangelism and discipleship were women and I had no issues whatsoever with them exercising their gifts as God had blessed them. I hope your response doesn't land you in hot water with the powers that be.<BR/><BR/>GaryGary Snowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10157967748058707819noreply@blogger.com