"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it." -Malachi 3:8-10
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. -Jesus (Matthew 6:33)
The last book of the Old Testament is emphatic that Jews were robbing God unless they brought the "whole tithe into the storehouse."
The very next books in the Bible, the Gospels (Matthew-John) resound with the theme of THE KINGDOM. Little is said by Jesus about the temple except, "...not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
Jesus himself is introduced in the early chapters of the Gospels as traveling throughout Galilee "preaching the good news of the kingdom." The kingdom theme is mentioned nine times in just the first six chapters of the opening book of the New Testament. Jesus himself brings the matter to the forefront with the first command he issues to his disciples, "seek first the kingdom."
While there is no denying that Malachi 3 storehouse giving is biblical for Jews living under the Old Testament Law of Moses, Jesus came preaching the good news of the kingdom, not the superiority of the temple system. The very "storehouse" that the Jews were to bring the "whole tithe" was destroyed in 70 A.D. Since the temple no longer exists in Jerusalem, it seems strange to continue to insist from the Malachi passage that NT believers are robbing God if they no not bring their "whole tithe" into their local church offering plate.
How is it that we are able to twist the Malachi passage into saying something that it does not say?
Like many, I was brought up with the understanding that 10% of what one receives should be given back to the Lord through one's local church as our "tithe." Anything beyond the initial 10% is considered "offering money." We are free to give our offerings to other kingdom causes, but the "tithe" goes intact to one's local church.
But does "storehouse giving" align itself with Jesus command to SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM? Are local church budgets, programs, buildings, parking lots, salaries, maintenance, etc. synonymous with Kingdom interests?
To me, the Kingdom is the broader sphere of Christ's reign. While storehouse giving can certainly be in line with Paul's admonition to give what one purposes in his heart (2 Cor.9:7), it should not be seen as the one and only biblical way of giving. For me, kingdom giving trumps storehouse tithing.
If storehouse tithing gave way to kingdom giving, the argument goes that our churches and programs would crumble overnight. The whole structure of church-as-we-know-it would collapse.
Would this be a bad thing?
Undoubtedly things would be terribly chaotic for many of us, especially for those like myself who depend upon storehouse tithing/giving to pay our bills and feed our families. But I am convinced that after the dust settles, there would be a dramatic surge forward towards the fulfillment of Kingdom purposes in all spheres of life. We would finally begin to make giant steps forward in making Christ known amongst the nations.
Yes, some people, ministries, churches, organizations would suffer and probably die off within days. I am not saying it would be pretty. Many of us would suffer the consequences of this upheaval. But others, who have long been neglected or underfunded, would flourish with fruit bearing 30,60, and 100-fold.
As a missionary, I see lots of pain, suffering, disease, violence, poverty, and hopelessness. Within the Body of Christ we have all the human and financial resources to meet the needs around us. Yet, very little gets to where it is most needed. Why? Our resources are tied up in in-house use. What would our world look like if churches held back 10% for internal use and gave 90% to Kingdom causes in the world?
The time has come for kingdom giving to become the norm for Christ followers. This doesn't mean we neglect or turn our backs on those who serve us in the Lord, but it does mean we get serious about seeking first the kingdom, rather than seeking first the needs of our local storehouses.
30 comments:
Amen. Thank you for this refreshing reminder. I will repost this on one of my blogs and Sermon Index forum. God bless.
It's rather refreshing to see this article.
I often think about the fact that those who love singing "I Surrender All" have an unwritten parenthesis,
"I surrender all(of ten percent)", that's emasculated lordship, and therefore not lordship..
He is either Lord of all, or He's not Lord at all.
I love this! Not all giving is of equal value....
Awesome post!!!!!!!
Thanks to all for stopping by and leaving comments. Money is a tough subject to write about and people have strong convictions about these matters. What I write are my own convictions, but respect those who disagree with my conclusions.
Thanks Guy. As a Southern Baptist, I agree with Mamacita. It is a brave stance, but I agree with you from scripure that it is a correct one. The Malachi text is emphasized much more than Paul's later instructions to the Corinthians regarding giving under grace free of coercion.
It seems that grace must save us, but after that we gotta go back to the law. We don't trust grace to keep the machinery running.
Shalom Brother.
ContraionSoul,
Great quote from you, It seems that grace must save us, but after that we gotta go back to the law. We don't trust grace to keep the machinery running.
Why no mention of Jesus talking about tithing? Where is "Kingdom Giving" as described in the post taught in the N.T.? Why was this not mentioned? Where is the term / concept of Kingdom Giving in the N.T.? Is it acceptable to attack a Biblical teaching with an imaginary concept because you want to correct the way the money is spent? We've got to better than this!
I have no problem with the basic idea of seeking God's Kingdom first above everything else, including the way we use all the resources God blesses us with. What I do have a problem with is the way you play fast and loose with the text. There is a Biblical teaching of tithing but not of Kingdom Giving. Jesus affirms tithing in his conversations with the Pharisees. The apostles affirm and promote some form of general collection in the churches for the needs of the less fortunate within the Church and supporting missionary activities such as their own. To sweep these away with something called Kingdom Giving that isn't taught in the Bible is dangerous. I fully agree with your concerns about how, in many cases, money (tithes and offerings) aren't being spent in ways that honor God. But the way you present your argument isn't any better than the one you are opposing. You say, "How is it that we are able to twist the Malachi passage into saying something that it does not say?" while you put words (concepts) in the mouths of Jesus and the apostles that they didn't say and are not taught in the N.T. The issue you are trying to address is very important. The changes in the way we as the Church use the money that believers give that you are seeking are appropriate. But there are much better ways to go about that than opposing tithing and promoting something you call Kingdom Giving which doesn't exist as a teaching or doctrine by Jesus or the Apostles. Promoting good things in unbiblical ways is what cults do. We are not a cult. Jesus and the Apostles used many parables and illustrations to teach that we as Christ followers are to surrender everything in allegiance to God's Kingdom. These are the texts that you should use to promote individual and church commitment to giving of their resources most effectively in the growth of God's Kingdom. The issue of much of what the churches do with that surrendered money has nothing to do with tithing. It has to do with getting our focus off of ourselves and on to those others who are still lost out there without Christ. If anything, you should be promoting tithing because if every person who claims to be a Christian would just give 10% of their income and time to their local church, and the churches would then pass along 10% of their funds and time (volunteers), then we would have more than enough of everything we need. Instead of attacking tithing by using only one passage from the O.T. and juxtaposing that passage artificially against a phrase in the N.T. you should explore the whole teaching of O.T. tithing (which when all the giving that God requires in O.T. is added up, it comes closer to 33%)and use that as a challenge to how we should, under a much better covenant, do as much or even more. The issue I have is not that I'm opposed to your admonition that believers and churches should be giving more for Kingdom work that has nothing to do with maintaining buildings and programs. We are together here. My caution to you is to go about that in a better way. Misusing the Bible for a good reason is not good reasoning. Thanks for your passion! I encourage you to package it in a better Biblical hermeneutic.
I will be interested to see Guy's response to Anon. Hmmm....
There is a two edged problem when teaching the ten percent tithe rule: One, the early church did not likely practice it and Jesus gave us just one law- to love one another. The tithe can not be a second 'law'. But as a guideline I do teach it. I abandoned teaching the tithe in discipleship and found a lot of greedy, non-giving disciples. People need guidelines they can shoot for and the tithe is a good one. I have also had personal testimony and the testimony of others that God really does bless the tithe- and the tither.
The second problem is that this is a hypothetical discussion in SBC life. I pastored two churches before going overseas and in both I and one old lady pensioner were the only ones who actually tithed. Everyone else- who made very much more than we did did not come close to tithing- but all would be horrified for the teaching to be done away with. How many SBC wide actually tithe? Even 10% of us? Probably not. So, we have a teaching that many SBCers would die for and never think about obeying. Something very unhealthy about that.
So cool! The word verification for this comment is 'monster m'. Is that me or Guy do you think?
Anon.,
Before jumping in and attempting to answer some of your many excellent questions, allow me to say upfront, I personally believe NT believers are to give MORE THAN 10% to the Lord's work. Not only do I believe this, I have practiced this for many decades now.
The tithe (10%) is an OT commandment, a reference point. In the NT 100% belongs to the Lord. In regards to "how much" of that 100% should be given back to the Lord, Paul answers, "each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart..." That is the NT teaching on how much.
Jesus himself did not tell his disciples what percentage they should give; rather, that they should, "Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return." There is no exact percentage, only that we will receive back in the same measure that we give.
Some will purpose/measure more than others, but this is something every believer must come to terms with before his Lord.
Now to some brief answers to your questions...
Why no mention of Jesus talking about tithing? He does in Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."
Who is Jesus talking to? Scribes and Pharisees. These words were not directed to his disciples. He addresses these words to those who were still under the Law of Moses. They were under the whole law, including tithing. We, his disciples, are not. Why would NT believers be expected to keep only part of the law (storehouse tithing), and not all of the law?
Though Jesus was a Jew, born into the teachings of the Law of Moses, He came teaching the Kingdom of God. He commanded his disciples to seek first the kingdom.
Kingdom giving is a natural expression growing out of all that is implied in "seeking first the kingdom." We give to the kingdom because that is what Jesus said we are to seek first. That doesn't mean we can't give to the "storehouse," of course we can, but it isn't FIRST in what we seek. Kingdom is.
What we teach new disciples in our church planting with new believers is not OT tithing, but NT giving to the kingdom. The majority of our house churches give north of 70% of their monies to kingdom causes. Individual disciples we work with give upwards of 30% or more to the Kingdom.
Hope some of this helps. If you still have points you think I have skirted, or not addressed accurately, please feel free to point these out, and I will try to address them more specifically.
Thanks again for your thoughts and observations on this important subject.
Strider,
The "Monster M" is definitely you, Strider. I hold you in high esteem for your service to our Lord!
Thanks for jumping in to the dialogue. You write, "People need guidelines they can shoot for and the tithe is a good one. I have also had personal testimony and the testimony of others that God really does bless the tithe- and the tither."
I agree. We too have had to back-step and come to terms with this subject in our church planting. The way we approach the subject of tithing/giving/kingdom finances is to start with Matthew 6:33. If we are to seek first the Kingdom, what is implied by that?
We then take a look at all the passages in the NT about how money was gathered, what it was used for, and what things got financed in the early churches.
In a nutshell, what comes out of this investigation is that their giving went to advance apostolic ministry, helping fellow brothers in time of need (famine relief), providing for widows/orphans.
We contextualize these findings and basically say:
1) evangelism/missions
2) needs of the saints
3) needs of not-yet-believers
One of the best ways to encourage new believers to "purpose in their hearts" is to share testimonies of God's faithfulness when we give freely according to the Spirit's leading.
To me the issue is not whether or not a believer should give to the Lord's work (of course they should) but WHERE it is deposited, and how it is used.
Hi Guy - It’s been awhile. Missed you.
Seems in my antiquated KJV - in the OT and the NT -
the “Tithe” was NEVER - silver, gold or money.
Seems the “Tithe” was always food to be eaten
and/or sacrificed to God. Burnt on an alter.
Can’t remember anyone burning on the alter a Washington, $1.00, or a Lincoln, $5.00, when I was in
in “The Corrupt Religious System.”
They even told me I was under a curse if I didn’t give them 10%, a “Tithe,” of my income.
That turned out to be a lie. ;-)
When you believe the lie you start to die...
When I did my own study I found at least 4 “Tithes”
in th OT.
There is even a tithe for you and your household.
Deut 12:6-18, Deut 14:22-26.
Never heard that one preached from the pulpit. ;-)
Be blessed
Amos,
Welcome back to the "M Blog" long-time no see you around these parts!
Interesting what you found out about the OT tithe. I like what you wrote, especially there being a tithe designated for us and our household in Deut 12:6-18, Deut 14:22-26. But I'm afraid if we had the same freedom to spend it as they did, we'd be in big trouble! :)
"You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires...and rejoice, you and your household."
Much agreement...
“I’m afraid if we had the same freedom to spend it as they did, we'd be in big trouble!”
For me, today, there is a higher principle then the 10%.
And I’m glad I’m no longer under “the Law.”
If everything I have, the money in my pocket, ALL,
really belongs to God...???
Then all I have to do is give His money where He, Jesus,
tells me too. And when He tells me.
It’s good to hear “His Voice.”
I no longer have to figure it out. ;-)
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
Oh Yea... One more thing...
Now if God tells you to give 10% of your income to a...
501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax $ deductible,
Religious $ Corporation, - most today call church -
Please, be my guest an obey God...
But, if a mere fallible human, a pastor, tells you -
“the Bible says” - you are to give a “Tithe,”
10% of your income, silver, gold or Money -
to your church - this church -
That’s a lie...
Jer 50:6
*My people* hath been *lost sheep:*
*their shepherds* have caused them *to go astray,*
1Pe 2:25
For ye were as *sheep going astray;* but are now
returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
I’m Blest...
I’ve returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of my soul...
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
Guy,
As I implied with the earlier comment,all that we have and are belongs to God. We are to exercise good stewardship of what He has entrusted to us:
1.Our souls with all their faculties, are the property of God.
2.Our bodies are the property of God.
3.Our time is God’s property.
4.All our knowledge and literary acquisitions are God’s property.
5.Our temporal possessions are God’s property.
As a necessary consequence from the preceding remarks, all of our influence over others results either from our natural faculties, our knowledge, or our wealth; every part of which is the property of God.
Even the influence which comes our way from any of these circumstances, belongs to Him also, and ought always to be directed towards promoting his honor and His interests in the world.
Rendering to God the things that belongs to God, requires the consecrating of ourselves (souls), our bodies, our time, our knowledge, our possessions (money included) and our influence to his service. All of these belong to God, and anyone who withholds from God any of these things, or any part of them, does not comply with the precept in Luke 20:25.
Amos,
There is indeed a higher law that we answer to, Christ Jesus. As you point out, we should listen to Him in regards to all giving. His sheep hear his voice (or ought to!) It is a lot easier to just habitually write a check and put it in the offering plate having done our duty, and never have to deal with people, needs, situations that the Lord is speaking to us about helping.
John,
Being a steward who has been entrusted with carrying out Christ's Kingdom mission, entails the need to recognize, as you point out, that everything we have and are is His. He has the right to direct our every move. Our every action. Our every gift. One of the problems I have with storehouse tithing, is that it doesn't have to listen to the Spirit of Jesus. It is simply a habit, a custom, something we mindlessly do, without having to deal with the things Christ may well be wanting us to engage. Good thoughts. Thanks for sharing.
Here is a passage in Deuteronomy 12:
17Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
18But thou must eat them before the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates: and thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God in all that thou puttest thine hands unto.
I agree Guy with the principle of NT Giving as opposed to tithing. Today I gave to a brother who needed a leak in his roof fixed.
I also gave to a young man who's radiator sprung a leak. He and I tore into it and basically he and my son finished it up. No more risking an engine over losing water.
The Spirit of God lives in every believer, why? He is the Director of the show. It's no problem hearing the Spirit say give. He'll never ask us to give too much but he will certainly challenge our capacity at times. Give til it helps. Cheers.
There have been a lot of good testimonies in this string about how God is leading his people in giving in ways that are obviously honoring to Him. I have no issue with any of this. But, everyone needs to recognize that the basis of this discussion is flawed because it rests of several assumptions that cannot be supported by scripture. Some of those assumptions are that tithing and (an imaginary giving principle called Kingdom Giving) are to separate things and that they are exclusive and opposed to each other. Guy, how do you know (show from scripture) that tithing isn't Kingdom Giving? There isn't any scriptural evidence that shows that there is a distinction between the two. Another assumption is that tithing is giving 10% of ones income. Some have pointed out that there are at least 4 tithes. These all add up to much more than 10%. So, "Kingdom Giving" doesn't look so extravagant unless your giving more than say 40%. In short, you have characterized the argument on unverifiable assumptions and unprovable dichotomies. Again, if you want to address waste and inappropriate uses of monies that are given to God's work, you should address that head on, not with and end-run by inventing a non existent opposition between the O.T. and N.T.
Bruce,
You are exactly right in saying, The Spirit of God lives in every believer, why? He is the Director of the show. It's no problem hearing the Spirit say give. He'll never ask us to give too much but he will certainly challenge our capacity at times. Give til it helps. We are people led by the Spirit of God. Thanks for the testimony shared of how these things work in the real world.
Anon.,
Thanks for your follow-up response. Much of what I would answer you here can be read in my latest post More thoughts on storehouse tithing and kingdom giving. I hope you get a chance to check it out. Again, I appreciate what you have to share and understand where you are coming from, but hope you will likewise try to see what it is I am trying to share from my heart.
Guy, I can't understand what you are trying to "share from your heart". I can only understand what you share from your keyboard. And what you are sharing from your keyboard has many logical, theological, hermeneutical, and scriptural flaws. I would be interested in seeing you take on the misuse and waste of monies given to local churches and or ministries whether by tithing, offernings or any other means. That was the point and intent of your original post. Unfortunately you couched the discussion in a fallacious pitting of the O.T. against the N.T. What I'm trying to share from my heart is that we must do better than that.
Anonymous
You write...
“Is it acceptable to attack *a Biblical teaching* with an imaginary concept because you want to correct the way the money is spent?”
Which *Biblical teaching* are you speaking about?
I was taught by “Abusive Pastors,”
if I didn't give a "Tithe," 10% of total income earned,
to a church, this church, I was under a curse. :-(
Is that in the Bible? Is that *Biblical teaching?*
I was taught by “Abusive Pastors,”
today we give money as a “Tithe” 10% of earnings,
because in Bible days, it was an agricultural society
and they bartered goods and services.
Is that in the Bible? Is that *Biblical teaching?*
Where in the Bible did the “Tithe” change from
*food* to be eaten and sacrificed to God...
To MONEY?
Where is that in the Bible? Is that *Biblical teaching?*
Was anyone, OT or NT, under the law, NOT under law,
ever required to give as a "Tithe"
10% of their income in - Silver - Gold - Money?
Which *Biblical teaching* are you speaking about?
Amos,
It's simple. Tithing is in the Bible. It's there (how some interpret and apply it aren't the scope of my concern as it relates to the original post). "Kingdom Giving" isn't in the Bible. Especially as it is presented in the original post.
Anon.,
It would be much more enjoyable sitting down with you over a cup of coffee and talking through these matters. But since this isn't possible, I will attempt again to try and explain "my heart" on this subject.
The purpose of my post is not to point out the "misuses/waste of monies given to local churches and or ministries whether by tithing, offernings or any other means." Rather, it is to point out that the NT does not teach STOREHOUSE tithing.
Giving one's whole tithe to the storehouse is an OT practice that was given to Jews under the Law of Moses. No where in the NT is tithing taught or expected of followers of Christ. What you mean in saying that tithing is Biblical, is that tithing is part of the Law of Moses--that part of the Bible that we no longer are bound to.
The struggle of the 1st-century church was to understand that Christ's work on the cross perfectly fulfilled all that the Law of Moses had failed to do. Much of what Paul wrote about in Galatians and in his other letters was to show that we are no longer under the Law.
True, many of the early Jerusalem Jewish believers felt that Christ followers must continue to follow the Laws of Moses. Paul fought this tooth and nail. Tithing is part of that OT system.
I respect your conviction of believing that tithing is still binding, but if you do so, would hope you are keeping all the Law as well. It would be enlightening to me to see what NT passages you are basing this obligation upon? If tithing was expected of NT followers, why isn't there a single admonition to do so? When the Jerusalem church was dealing with the whole Gentile issues in Acts 15, why didn't the Jerusalem Council put tithing as one of the requisites for Gentile believers? It would have been an easy thing to do, but they didn't include it in the "bare essentials" listed.
Instead, we find these words, Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
They went on to write a letter saying, For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well.
Tithing is not in the above essentials list.
While the term "kingdom giving" is not found the NT, giving, is definitely taught. The issue then becomes, do we give our whole tithe to the storehouse (storehouse tithing) or do we give to Kingdom causes and needs?
I would be surprised if you told me you yourself give your entire tithe to only one church. I personally do not recall ever coming across a single missionary in all my years overseas who actually believed they must give their entire tithe (whether 5-10-15-20-30%) to a single local church. All spread their giving out amongst many different churches and Kingdom needs. They give to Kingdom needs: medicine for the sick, Bibles, paying for training, love offerings as the Spirit leads, supporting missionaries in other countries, food baskets, disaster relief efforts, etc.
Again, Christ did not command or teach that his followers continue to give to the temple storehouse. Paul did not command or teach this either. Nowhere in Acts is there any indication that Jesus believers continued to tithe to the Jerusalem storehouse, or even to the house churches that they were part of.
What we find is that Paul says we are to give as each purposes in his heart. Those who laid their entire fortunes at the apostles feet did so freely. They were not commanded to do this.
Guy, The problem with this discussion is that you and others make huge assumptions about me and the Bible text that neither I or it states. Example: "I respect your conviction of believing that tithing is still binding, but if you do so, would hope you are keeping all the Law as well. ..." I've never stated that I believe tithing is still binding, yet you assume that on me, just like you assume many things on the Apostles. The fact is that it is impossible for you to prove an argument from silence. The N.T. doesn't address the issue of tithing specifically, yet you make huge claims from it's silence. This is poor hermeneutics. It makes this discussion into a bad Sunday School class where we repeatedly here; "what the text means / says TO ME..." So we are just passing around a mixture of collective ignorance. The point is that you can't say definitively what the text doesn't. I'm short on time now but can write more latter if needed.
Tithing, just like salvation by grace through faith predates the Mosaic law (Gen.14:17-20; 28:22). It is an uncomnanded act of worship and devotion that expresses ones dependence on God and recognizes Him as the source of everything one has received. Since the vast majority of Christians don't give anything near 10% of their income to any ministry (local church or otherwise)it seems prudent to harmonize the whole teaching of the O.T. and N.T. to encourage generous giving rather than pitting one against the other.
Anon.,
To write, it seems prudent to harmonize the whole teaching of the O.T. and N.T. to encourage generous giving, sounds very similar to what was decided by the Acts 15 council, For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us... They had the Law, but after hearing all the evidence of what the Spirit had been doing amongst the Gentile believers, decided to not lay upon them something they themselves had not been able to accomplish.
We are a redeemed people under grace. The only "law" we are under is the law of love. Freely we have received, freely give. I do not give to the Lord's work because I have been commanded to tithe by the OT Scriptures, but do so out of love and desire to see His Kingdom come, and His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
Again, I would love to sit down over a cup of coffee someday and talk through these issues. I believe we would find we have a lot more in common than differences. Blessings!
"We are a redeemed people under grace. The only "law" we are under is the law of love. Freely we have received, freely give. I do not give to the Lord's work because I have been commanded to tithe by the OT Scriptures, but do so out of love and desire to see His Kingdom come, and His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven."
Guy - Stay with it.....on the right track here. I don't find you making assumptions, as much as breaking down unproven traditional thinking. (No, Anonymous....not picking on you or anyone on this thread).
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